A few hours ago, I wanted to make a post about this quote, which I recorded in a text file as follows:
戰爭無情,和平無價
War is ruthless; peace is priceless.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210613113511/https://www.ydn.com.tw/news/newsInsidePage?chapterID=1312831
via https://forum.skalman.nu/viewtopic.php?t=50050
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/新北八二三臺海戰役紀念碑
https://www.kinmen.gov.tw/News_Content2.aspx?n=98E3CA7358C89100&sms=BF7D6D478B935644&s=E28F9203506FEBAE
金門新聞(轉載金門日報)
戰爭無情和平無價
About the quote, and about the subject of the first article where I first saw it mentioned. Since the same quote is on a monument that doesn't mention the soldier in the first article, he was probably not the originator of the quote. It talks about him striving to teach his family to act in good ways; basically, to be nice.
Explorations of iterated prisoner's dilemmas show that the optimal strategy often depends on other existing strategies. A given strategy can be successful in one environment, causing it to increase in frequency, while failing in another. Being 'nice' is a strategy that can fail if everyone else is 'mean', partly because if too many people are mean, the cost of trying to keep track of or punish everyone who is mean is too hard. But there is also the consideration of people simply punishing anyone who deviates from what is thought of as the optimal strategy. Look at the discourse around males being nice towards females in the US: males who do this can be subjected to disparaging terms like "simp", or the somewhat less disparaging term "white knight". Wiktionary says,
3. (figurative, derogatory) Someone who unnecessarily defends someone else.
1. (informal, derogatory, Internet) A man who defends a woman in debate etc. in an attempt to gain her favour.Synonyms: doormat, simp
Urban dictionary also has definitions but for some reason the upvotes and downvotes aren't showing up for me, so I don't know which one people think is the best. One entry:
1) A man who stands up for a womens right to be an absolute equal, but then steps up like a white knight to rescue her any time that equality becomes a burden.
2) A man who Promotes gender equality but practices special privilege for women.
Compare the female in China who bought a house paid for the down payment on a house with the money she got from selling the 20 iPhones that males sent her.
"I can't even find one boyfriend. She can actually find 20 boyfriends at the same time and even get them to buy her an iPhone 7. Just want to ask her to teach me such skills."
So anyway, I just mentioned it for that quote: "War is ruthless; peace is priceless". Note that the original Chinese uses 無, "not", for both parts: "without feelings", and "without price".
The US also treated people terribly during the war in Vietnam. A search for "site:wikipedia.org us vietnam war special forces operations that killed civilians" turns up Tiger Force ("investigations during the course of the war and decades afterwards revealed the unit had committed extensive war crimes against hundreds of Vietnamese civilians") and Phoenix Program. It also turns up Civilian Irregular Defense Group program. The article says (noting that the content in a Wikipedia article is subject to change, and it might sometimes be necessary to check an article's history for its content on the date it was referenced),
Furthermore, he felt that Green Berets members "viewed themselves as something separate and distinct from the rest of the military effort," describing them as "fugitives from responsibility" who "tended to be nonconformist, couldn't quite get along in a straight military system, and found a haven where their actions were not scrutinized too carefully, and where they came under only sporadic or intermittent observation from the regular chain of command."
which seems relevant to the film Apocalypse Now (1979). I'm not praising the film, and it doesn't seem to feature any Green Berets, but there are certainly characters in it that don't act like typical soldiers.
But I mentioned that last article just because I watched most of the film Gran Torino a couple weeks ago. It features Hmong people, with one of them saying that Hmong people are in the US because they helped the south and the US during the war, so they had to leave when they lost.
So: the US might not have done anything during the Iraq war and occupation that was as bad as what Israel has recently done, but it did during the Vietnam War. (Also, shooting at civilian cars that drove too close to military vehicles during Iraq's occupation was bad.) And the US also killed lots of people. As the saying goes.
Lots of people also died in Syrian prisons. Many of them starved to death, rather than being deliberately killed. Maybe the Syrian government simply could not afford to buy food for all of the prisoners during the fighting; Syria spent $2.2 billion on military in 2011, the year the civil war started (population was 23 million), while Israel spent $13 billion on military in the same year (population was 7.8 million, about the population of Wuhan Nanjing in China).
Why doesn't Israel kill people after torturing them, or let them starve? Because the purpose is not genocide. The guards who are mean to Palestinian prisoners are trying to make them think that their situation is bad; that they should not be happy when Gaza has a GDP of $161 per capita or $200 per capita ("a level associated with the poorest low-income countries, and a full 95 percent below the West Bank’s").
If people in Gaza were not happy, they would try harder to fix their situation. (Like, if they were less happy, they might share this idea if they learned of it.) Do people have children when they are not happy?
When people spread information about the treatment of Palestinians in Israeli prisons, they are trying to cause an improvement of those people's treatment. But are they trying to end war?
"War is ruthless; peace is priceless."
As always, I spent too long on parts of this post, like finding a reference for Syria's military spending. Started this post over two hours ago.
(The following is something I eventually wrote after waiting long enough, instead of just publishing the above.)
I think I also wanted to mention a video? If A Combat Veteran Was A 911 Dispatcher - YouTube
Basically, "shoot the intruder." About 13 years ago, my oldest brother (currently in prison) mentioned a book that I think was On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. After he mentioned the book, I read what was probably the Wikipedia article about it, and said that my response was based on this and that I didn't think the book was worth reading; he seemed to imply he disagreed with my dismissal of it. We discussed the topic as recently as five years ago, when he helped my mum with a drive to a new state (since I couldn't help, lacking a driver's license). I mentioned a battle on a Pacific island where Japanese soldiers came very close to US lines (probably Marines) and expressed skepticism towards the view that a soldier would not shoot someone charging at them with fixed bayonet. In fact, just a couple years ago, shortly before he went to prison, I questioned him on whether the Ukraine conflict had changed his views about the issue.
It seemed to me that his belief that most people would not be willing to kill each other without intense training that overrides human instinct or something was not based on evidence. For example, my oldest brother considers himself to be religious, unlike me. I think he believes that what is commonly called heaven is important. I think that belief in heaven is not based on evidence, and that it is not controversial to say that it is not based on evidence: that religions embrace the lack of evidence for various claims as a positive aspect of religion, rather than taking the position that the lack of what could be called scientific evidence for miracles is a flaw. And so I found it plausible that my oldest brother's views on people's willingness to kill could avoid a thorough and impartial examination of the evidence.
For example, I said regarding the first petition, in 2012, that this was a conversation about whether people were, by nature, good or evil. If people can be convinced to kill other people easily (the question of whether the four people in The Push were convinced to kill someone 'easily' aside), one might say that this would mean people are, by nature, evil. If my brother thought this, he might have thought that it would be more beneficial to anyone for them to think that most people would not kill another human without training to 'dehumanize' an enemy, even if this is false.
I might actually have the opposite position: as a way of making people believe in justice, i.e. punishment for deliberately defecting in a prisoner's dilemma, it's better for society if people think that other people are willing to kill someone when the circumstances call for it.
I tend to believe it's beneficial for an individual to believe things that are true, even though this is not always the case: if I didn't believe this idea would fix problems, I would not be poor right now. Basically, I view the question of whether people are good or evil to be unimportant. Other people think it's important. But, like, suppose that someone wanted to determine whether I was good or bad. Sherine said in 2013 that she wasn't sure if she wanted to throw me under a bus or save me from being thrown under a bus. If a person who wanted know whether I was good or bad has not yet concluded that I'm bad, it doesn't mean that I'm not bad: it could just mean that I am smart enough to act in a way that will appear good to other people, and that I am using like Stanislavski's system to act as a good person. (The 'broken mask' in 【GUMIオリジナル】 正義粉砕 【NfN】, but the concept also relates to the whole "are you happy if someone thinks you are?" question.)
I occasionally think about this: a stupid person who attempts to lie will often make mistakes. So even if you trust them at one point, eventually they will probably make a mistake, and at that point get punished. So trusting them might sort of seem fine. Or, a stupid person who tries to determine if other people are lying will often make mistakes in their conclusions, both false positives and false negatives: the cost of making this determination is higher than for a smart person to make the determination. Rather than looking for 'clues', it could be better to rely on reputation, including enforcing changes of reputation based on new evidence.
Also, I was thinking recently: "could a smart AI take over the world?" I recently saw in my bookmarks a video with a title that starts with "Google smokes Olympic mathletes", presumably a progression in the trend that has included "AI does better than 90% of people on college-level exams". But can a smart AI convince people that it's stupid? Can it both convince people that it's stupid and also have agency? Would people let a dumb AI have any power? Would they let a smart AI have any power? Smart people accomplishing things because they look dumb is apparently a thing; I linked a "Columbo solves the Death Note case" video last year, though I think my favorite was [95k views, 4.9k subs, 10 Dec 2025]Love Note: A Death Note Parody - Episode 1 - YouTube. If stupid people support people who have the best interests of stupid people in mind, how could a smart AI convince people that it has this goal, instead of the goal of helping smart people?
Back to the question of Violence. Underestimating other people's potential for violence can have obvious negative consequences. What about overestimating their potential for violence? In 2020, there was some kind of family event I went to. Maybe some relatives were in town, maybe for the death of my last grandparent. I remember asking my youngest sister, regarding Covid-19, whether the family gathering at a restaurant was worth a 0.001% chance of death (or something like that). Her response was, "I don't know."
Topic: sexually transmitted diseases. Many people seem to not care about them. Just like many people seem to not care about a small risk of death: jumping off cliffs into water, or getting into fights, or driving at a high speed on a road, or not following all safety procedures or doing sufficient calculations about loads when using heavy equipment. Note that joining the military when you could end up on a ship that is being targeted by 100 missiles is a calculated risk, in exchange for money or the promise of a protective benefit to people you care about.
So for some people, a 2% chance to die because you decided to wander around city streets at night (or visit a country where you might be kidnapped) is the same as a 1% chance: both are equally effective at deterring the activity. For other people, maybe the 1% chance is acceptable, but the 2% chance would not be, and so overestimating the potential for violence could avoid their death. Or maybe there is a systematic underestimation of the risk in specific situations, such that overestimating the potential that humans have for violence in general leads to a more accurate estimate of the risk of a particular situation, due to cancellation of errors. But systematic errors could just as easily lead to overestimation of risk in particular situations, leading to a compounded error of two overestimations.
There was that poll for teenagers on Reddit, Do you truly consider yourself to be a good person?, and I just remembered these videos, featuring the song Sweet Caroline:
Nick Davis - Jealous Boyfriend Crashes Party: A POV Story - TikTok (Tikvib) 2m likes, by @nickdavisfr
Brooke Monk - Like bruh I'm right here - TikTok (Tikvib) 959k likes, by @brookemonk_
POV: The Quiet Kid #TheManniiShow.com/series - YouTube 2.5m likes, by
@TheManniiShow
After someone with a knife tried to mug me while I was walking to my National Guard armory late at night, I never visited that area at night again. Since I never had any reason to visit it at night again, I'm not sure if I would have considered it an area with an unreasonably high risk of crime, and whether me overestimating the potential that humans have for crime would have stopped me from being outside at night the first time.
I did learn something from it: that someone would act in the way that they did, which included grabbing my backback as I ran from the public street towards the armory, meaning they entered onto the property of the armory. I interpreted it to mean that they did not consider the US military to be an institution that seemed to benefit them, or they would not have tried to rob someone who seemed to be in it. So I can say, "I learned something, so it was not a mistake." But I did also — I think shortly after I wrote the first post on this site and was trying to find somewhere to sleep — avoid someone in a public park who might have been trying to sell me drugs, as I was uncertain if they just wanted to rob me. There is a limit to how much I value new information, if it comes at a risk.
(4 hours 52 minutes to write)